The importance of frame control

Mormon Men had an interesting post yesterday which got me thinking about a few things.

“He grew up without an example of real masculinity and manhood and is now in a relationship with a dominant woman similar to his mother. … On top of that, he is with a woman who doesn’t want to be led; or at least says she doesn’t.”

It’s a basic psychological need of people to be in control of themselves and preferably their surroundings too. This makes us feel safe. This is probably why most of us want to be dominant and “us” of course includes women. The problem is that women can’t really respect a man who lets himself be controlled easily. And declining respect means declining attraction. There’s nothing “inherently” wrong with the idea of a woman leading in an LTR but because of her hypergamous instincts she won’t be happy if she’s the boss. Feminists growling grrl power all the time can’t understand this. They want “power” in all shapes and sizes and don’t give a damn about consequences.

Don’t make the mistake of confronting women openly about this question. Of course most of them say they don’t want to be led. But their conscious mind doesn’t know much about hypergamy and also when you say “leadership” they hear “control”. But you know that what you want is not control, but genuine leadership which will make both of you happy.

If she really is dominant and you don’t want power struggles in the relationship, the very least you must do is be in control of yourself. That way you can have the illusion of being equals. There’s no real equality in relationships but the illusion of it is still preferable to obvious female leadership. If you can’t lead her at least don’t let her lead you. Have your own time, things and friends and don’t let her control these. Don’t be apologetic about these. You’re grown up and you make your own decisions about things that concern you.

It’s a lot easier to maintain the role of leader than to regain it. This is bad news for those who have already let their woman control them. Once she starts seeing the relationship like she’s boss and you’re her underling your quest for a happy LTR becomes a hundred times harder.

“Many blogs and bloggers will write about the immediate transformation learning Game will have on their relationships. This was my own personal experience, but it only lasted for a while. Eventually my wife was able to see through all the tricks like negs, aloofness and stoicism and still see that she was able to manipulate me.”

You, my friend, need to learn about frame control. It’s a very weird idea if you never thought about interactions this way. Most human interactions don’t have the struggle for frame control (most of the times it’s preevident whose frame is dominant and also most of the times the frame is of no real importance) but it’s very important in LTRs. I’ll give an example of what it is and why it’s important:

Let’s say she asked you to bring her a strawberry soda from the shop on the corner but you bring her a raspberry one instead. It’s a trivial mistake of no significance. But she starts acting all butthurt and seems to be ready to throw a fit. She says you don’t care about her and whatnot. That is her “frame”. You start laughing. You start laughing hard because the whole situation is so stupid it’s surreal. That is your frame. It’s obvious the two frames are quite different and most probably can’t coexist. It’s either you stop laughing and act like she’s right and start begging for forgiveness, or she will see that you’re right and she’ll start laughing too. Who “wins” is a question of who has a tighter grip on his/her own frame. If you really believe that you did nothing wrong then you will laugh all the way through her tantrum until she “submits”. I did something like this this morning and I think this is one of the best ways to handle a quarrel.

There is a possibility that your woman will insist on her frame despite it being obviously unfounded, stupid and/or worse than yours. You must not yield. You have to have the nerves to take it all the way and act like a man who knows he is right. Ignore her, leave your home for a walk, do whatever it takes just don’t let her “win” when you know you’re the one who’s right. If she clings to a lot of miserable frames I feel sorry for you but you made the wrong choice. You have a world of pain ahead of you if you want to stay with her.

Having a strong humorous frame will help you in a lot of situations from the first minute of flirting to the last minute of your marriage. What you have to do is find real humor in those dodgy situations and “amplify” them a bit if needed (just like with agree&amplify). Show her how absurd her frame is. Avoid sounding weird or phony. Don’t try to make fun of things which are not funny. It’s not that hard after a little practice.

This entry was posted in Game, Marriage, Women and tagged , , . Bookmark the permalink.

17 Responses to The importance of frame control

  1. mormonmen says:

    Hey thanks for expanding further on what I was saying myself. The actions alone can only get you so far, and women will eventually see through them if they’re just actions. Weak men have to literally change their view of the entire world and especially their view of conflict. The mere fact that someone is upset with you doesn’t mean your wrong, even if we’ve been raised to believe otherwise. Proper frame is THE key aspect of a successful relationship. Without it, everything else looks like a sham.

  2. Toz says:

    I agree with this post but would go one step further. It’s not just frame control per se, but strong inner game. Having a really strong sense of your reality is part of it, but there’s more to inner game than just controlling the social interaction. Stuff like having a strong sense of identity, not being afraid of anything and having good boundaries are all part of inner game. In an LTR, inner game ends up being more important than outer game since she’ll eventually see through everything that’s not congruent with who you are on the inside.

    Thankfully, practicing outer game does change the inner game so even beginners can have some place to start.

  3. LVD says:

    Self control is the most respectable quality a human being can have.

    Can s/he control her/his anger? Can s/he control her/his food intake?

    Can s/he control her/his alcohol and substance intake?

    Can s/he control her/his spending? Can s/he control her/his media intake?


    I’ve lost respect for men (and women) who were unable to control 1 or more of these.

    Self control is the only control.

  4. At some point you just have to stop worrying about game and just have confidence, not let yourself be taken advantage of and love.

  5. (R)Evolutionary says:


    “At some point you just have to stop worrying about game and just have confidence, not let yourself be taken advantage of and love.”

    Well of course what you said is true BUT, it’s a very simplistic statement from a man who’s publicly stated he’s in a relationship with a naturally submissive woman. Thus it’s easy to maintain hand. Your frame is that of someone who has an easy time, with a little practice, in maintaining both frame and hand with your wife.

    In other situations, with women who have more propensity to challenge for dominance (read: shit test), one can never backslide.

    I can appreciate this post because I was in a 3-year relationship, and engaged to(I know, I too dodged some hot lead here) a very stunningly beautiful woman who was and is also a very dominant, ball-busting femme fatale. In that relationship, I essentially just lived and loved. I knew a tiny amount of game, and consciously let it go (dumb, yes) so that I could “fully be in the moment” with her. As a result, I paid no mind to hand, to dominance, to alpha/beta dynamics. Though I’m a natural alpha, I tend to manifest lots of beta traits in relationship. As you’ve written, Athol, those beta traits are desirable to some degree. In this particular relationship, despite starting out with great frame & state, I made a few key mistakes within the first 6 months, which caused loss of frame and hand, neither of which I ever regained. Not that I’m hurt about it, I couldn’t have lived with that woman forever. I’m grateful for the learning experience.

  6. (R)Evolutionary says:


    Yes–personal control is all there is. Word is bond. Impeccability is all we have.

  7. (R)Evolutionary – you’re complaining that my marriage is easy because I chose a good wife. There was no luck involved in that, just a grindingly long three year long distance relationship to get to the wedding day.

  8. (R)Evolutionary says:


    No complaints here, amigo. I congratulate you on well-made choices. You do good work & your blog is a light in the dark.

    I’m simply stating that saying ‘let go and love’ is a tough act to follow if your woman is constantly shit-testing you. Of course, a bitchy, high-maintenance, lifelong shit-tester probably needs to be kicked to the curb, no matter how hot she is. Younger, hotter, tighter, low(er) maintenance is just around the corner, with a little luck (opportunity + preparation) and some tight game. And, of course, always, Love.

  9. LVD says:

    “Younger, hotter, tighter, low(er) maintenance is just around the corner, with a little luck (opportunity + preparation) and some tight game. And, of course, always, Love.”

    This is an airy fairy new-age myth, similar to the “soul mate” myth and “twin flame” myth.

    Love is not “just around the corner”.

    It’s a crap shoot – literally.

    I’m afraid young people today are being sold a bill of goods. Post dated check, etc.

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  11. (R)Evolutionary says:

    Crap shoots are for Vegas.

    This is more like the commodities market–it can be analyzed & understood via supply and demand. There certain peculiarities of the market that may not be knowable, but by and large, demand is constant, due to human’s biological needs. For commodities, it’s the need to eat. In human sociobiology, a.ka. game, it’s the need to procreate. It’s an innate drive more powerful than any engine, than any explosive.

    Supply can be seen, studied, and known very deeply through observation. In this case, game is the confident, socially savvy, charismatic men who can supply social leadership and dominance via alpha behaviors and frame control. Viz and to wit–tight game. These men are in demand, and their value not lowers a notch through the early to mid 40’s, and beyond, as long has he keeps himself up physically & stylistically. Got to have the steak and the sizzle.

    I’ve seen it too many times to believe that it’s a myth. It’s biological fact, like leaves changing in autumn, and green grass penetrating the earth in spring.

    Example: My hairstylist is a hetero male, a guy who’s got good natural game and instincts, and is married to a VERY hot woman 11 years his junior, who dotes on him and their two kids.

    Example: Decorated combat veteran returns home at age 34, and snags an 18 year old hottie, marries her & makes many babies.

    Examples: George Clooney, Jack Nicholson, Dennis Kucinich.

    I could go on and on and on, but I don’t need to, because the proof is everywhere, and most importantly, I don’t need to convince anyone, because I know it’s true, feel it in my bones (as well as the known fact that you and I wouldn’t be on the planet without this biological truth: we are the children of people who got laid).

  12. David Collard says:

    Yes, I am 55 and my wife still sucks my cock, spreads her legs, cooks my meals, irons my shirts. I could go on.

    She is still hot for me, and I keep her that way with good natural game, and some of the tips I have found in the Manosphere in the last few years.

  13. LVD says:

    “Examples: George Clooney, Jack Nicholson, Dennis Kucinich. ”

    Rare meat. That’s why they’re in high demand.

    Alpha males, as well as men who can convincingly emulate them, are a small minority.

    Fake items will be returned and money reimbursed.

    We’re mostly dealing with Average John Doe’s out here, son.

  14. David Collard says:

    Any man can be an alpha. Do you want me to list some of the things women have been willing to do for me?

    Women are not that complicated.

  15. LVD says:

    You might be one of the rare ones who’s able to emulate alpha, however, I wouldn’t spend too much time on internet blogs because that will blow your cover.

    Moreover, it’s not that hard to get certain types of women to do a wide variety of things for even the lowest of men.

  16. David Collard says:

    LVD, I am impressed by your talent for invective.

    The woman I had in mind was actually a notable snob and a very stuck up girl indeed. The most “ladylike” of women.

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