Lesbian domestic violence

This was intended to be a comment at Manboobz’ but after trying posting it for 5 minutes I said “WTF” to myself and decided to post it here. I was already unable to post comments there with Firefox (which I use 99.9% of the time) but now – after he made some restrictions on commenting policies – even IE f*cks up 9 times of 10. It’s either a bug or a feature, I don’t care; I will not fight tooth and nail just to post a comment somewhere.
[UPDATE: it was the spam filter]
This post contains no new and exciting revelations for those who have read the comments section at my Big Debate post, but I will post it here nevertheless so the work I’ve put into it doesn’t go to waste :)

Anyways, here’s cat’s comment first, then my response to it [an improved version compared to what finally went through the spam filter there]:

cat said…
@Deansdale, I accused Eoghan of concern trolling, that is pretending to care about a group solely as a pretext to bash another group. I never accused you of being a concern troll, you are just an outright vocal bigot. Your hatred of queer people is blatantly obvious, as compared to Eoghan’s simple lack of concern except as an excuse (based solely from what I have seen of Eoghan here, he loves to concern troll, but I do not recall him engaging in any direct queerphobia).
(I debunked the absurd ‘lesbians are escpecially violent’ theory already in this comment thread on this blog http://manboobz.blogspot.com/2010/09/no-sperm-no-peace-crazy-mra-quote-of.html#comments with citations to sources, so anyone who wants to can go read it there, because I am not going to rehash it here)

Deansdale:

Your hatred of queer people is blatantly obvious
Because I said that LGBT issues are overrated?
LOL! Get real.
Or because I’ve said that lesbian DV is high? I have my own sources too, you know.

Let’s see about your “debunking”…
same sex domestic violence happens at comparable rates as opposite sex domestic violence
Only if you average gay and lesbian violence, and that is because gay violence is rarer while lesbian violence is more frequent, as evidenced by tons of research, for example:
“Preliminary studies show that 22% to 46% of all lesbians have been in a physically violent same-sex relationship. (…) of the 1,000 gay men surveyed, 17% reported having been in a physically violent gay relationship.” excerpted from Violence in gay and lesbian domestic partnerships. Now, according to the CDC data the rate of reciprocal violence is ~11.9% out of all relationships, and men are sole perpetrators of DV in 3.5% of all relationships thus meaning that even if we consider women in reciprocally violent relationships “victims”, the rate of all “victimized” women is still only 15.4%. It doesn’t take a nobel prize in maths to figure out that 15.4% is much lower than 22-46%.
Other studies have found similar results, such as:
“abuse (…) in a same sex relationship (…) 40.1% of the female” in Comparing domestic abuse in same sex & heterosexual relationships and
“Female previous relationships / Hit, kicked, pushed or thrown things at you: 36.5%” in Fair’s Fair.

the risk of one [lesbian] partner being battered is comparable to that of a hetero woman being battered
Well, no.

MRAs hate lesbians
What MRAs hate is retarded baseless accusations backed up by nothing else than feminazi bigotry, but hey.

Also, I couldn’t help noticing that the sources you cite to back you up are not independent studies but feminist ones. Sorry, but until you accept my challenge and win I don’t give a damn about feminist research because it is tainted by political agendas. Prove me wrong and then we’ll talk.
A lesbian feminist activist saying that lesbians have less violence than stated by independent research proves exactly nothing besides the dishonesty of said lesbian feminist.

there are many, many studies on queer people and domestic abuse in the US, which consistently find comparable rates of abuse, and only one from China which finds discrepant ones.
And this is proven to be a big fat lie by the links I provided.
Not that we honest people didn’t already know that you are prepared to lie all the way because of your ideological commitment.

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8 Responses to Lesbian domestic violence

  1. Eoghan says:

    I’ve noticed that feminist tend to project the characteristics of feminim on to us. A prominant feature of feminist rhetoric is using certain vicims to bash their target group or support their failing arguments. As soon as victims that dont suit their agenda are brought into he discussion, or there are calls for equality for those victims they start trying to sweep them under he carpet. If thats not evidence of large scale, organised concern trolling, I dont know what is.

  2. Eoghan says:

    “I have not seen him engage in any direct queer-phobia”, see cat using the suggestion that I might be hiding some homophobia in order to discredit me?

    She goes on to define concern trolling as “pretending to care about a group solely as a pretext to bash another group”.

    Shes projecting the characteristics of her own rhetoric on to me, another good example of feminists concern trolling is Tec on a voice for men trying to use child sex abuse victims in an attempt to slander Paul.

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  4. manboobz says:

    Deansdale, for some reason the spam filter likes eating your comments. I un-filter them as soon as I see them. I would turn the spam filter off if I could; it’s more trouble than it’s worth.

    I’ll respond to the lesbian DV issue in a future post. Honestly, I didn’t see much to respond to in your ‘big debate” post; it was mostly just rhetoric.

    As for your “100% challenge,” it’s a bit weird that you didn’t notice that not a single bit of research I cited on DV, including the research done by feminists, blamed men for 100% of the problem. Saying that women suffer more injuries from men in DV than men suffer from women in DV is not at all the same as saying that men are 100% responsible for DV. Nothing I cited even remotely suggested that.

  5. Deansdale says:

    “I didn’t see much to respond to in your ‘big debate” post; it was mostly just rhetoric”
    Oh noes… Tell me it ain’t so!
    The whole debate was just “rhetoric”. At first both Elam and you tried to show some stats but it disintegrated into mudslinging really fast. Instead of talking about the problem of DV you were stuck arguing whose sources are more trustworthy. It wasn’t really constructive.
    I could have joined in by citing more and more additional sources but that would’ve been meaningless. No amount of ‘sources’ could change the mind of either of the parties. That is because the issue was not really the percentages of victims. It does not matter if you believe 10% or 40% of the victims are male, what matters is helping them all. So, regardless of your source being feminist (stating 90% of victims are women) or independent (stating that 50% of victims are women) the conclusion should have been the same: we should create laws that help all victims equally; laws without biases and prejudices. Try arguing against this.
    So, if you’re honest about gender equality, the only possible solution is gender-neutral laws. Arguing whose stats are closer to the truth is a frekkin’ waste of time.

    On the topic of lesbian DV: the problem is the same. Some feminists are researching this topic with a bias and it shows in their results. Most independent researchers find that lesbians are more violent than men of any sexual orientation. This finding is consistent with the CDC data on hetero people showing that when the violence is not reciprocal, there are more female perpetrators than male. The nature of women is at least as violent as men’s. But of course you will cite lesbian feminist activists who have “researched” the topic and they have “found” that lesbians are not violent at all, like cat did.

    About my challenge: My challenge is about BIAS. It’s really hard to be clear about this subject because it’s easy as hell to (intentionally) misinterpret my intentions.
    But let’s just look at the example of… you.
    In this debate all your efforts went into proving that all the blame is to be put on men. Your one or two obscure and half-hearted remarks admitting “yeah, women sometimes are commiting DV” were always followed by explanations “but this is not important because it’s men who are really responsible”. For you the entire debate was an attempt to lessen the responsibility of women and to stress the responsibility of men.
    THIS is what I’m talking about. That no feminist ever said “women are half the problem”. Ever. It must be men, no matter what the actual research say. Your stance is that if the research say that women are equally responsible then the research must be flawed. If the CDC report shows that there are more violent women than men, your response is not “oh, well, ok then”, but lame excuses for violent women, twisting the subject until somehow you can “prove” that despite women are violent somehow they aren’t. This is feminist bias caught red-handed.
    Erin Pizzey once said something like this: I can’t be the only women in the US who is responsible for her own violence. (I can’t find the exact quote but it doesn’t matter.) It’s striking. The feminists, the media and the government keep telling us that women are not responsible for anything, not even the violence they commit. This is feminist bias.
    Show me mainstream feminist researchers who have said in a press release that women are responsible for a problem (any problem, not just DV), and were not immediately expelled from the movement because of it. A limp remark like “there are some victim-wymyn who commit self-defense” won’t cut it.

  6. Deansdale says:

    As for your “100% challenge,” it’s a bit weird that you didn’t notice that not a single bit of research I cited on DV, including the research done by feminists, blamed men for 100% of the problem.
    Since many of the studies you cite have “violence against women” in their (sub)title, or are published in magazines titled as such, it’s obvious they are coming from the point of totally blaming men. Are you saying they are not biased? Don’t make me laugh.

    And what kind of a loaded question is this:
    Are Physical Assaults by Wives and Girlfriends a Major Social Problem?
    Not so surprisingly the study comes to the conclusion that the answer is no; but violence against women is a major social problem, the researcher adds immediately.
    This reminds of “Are Men Necessary?”, a book from Maureen Dowd in which she gives the answer: of course not. No bias there either, huh? Feminists are sooo correct towards men, I don’t understand what’s the problem with these MRA guys.

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  8. Nergal says:

    “I have not seen him engage in any direct queer-phobia”, see cat using the suggestion that I might be hiding some homophobia in order to discredit me?”

    It wouldn’t matter,anyway. Homophobia is another one of those arguments that feminists use to try to silence legitimate questions. When lesbian feminists say things like “all heterosexual sex is rape” (feminists,don’t even THINK about trying to say that feminists don’t say that, I can pull up 3 dozen examples of high-profile feminists who have said it) and some guy says “Wow,you gays are sure messed up in the head.” they accuse him of homophobia in order to discredit a legitimate point and that is that feminists and especially lesbian feminists have some screwed up views on sexual relations, and if anything it is THEM who has a phobia, of STRAIGHT PEOPLE.

    So,”homophobia” actually has no meaning due to its use as a tool to silence legitimate objections to outlandish statements by certain apparently mentally ill gay people. It’s like how anyone who criticizes one of President Obama’s policies is labeled a racist. If it was racism, then the blacks who complained “George Bush doesn’t care about black people” in the wake of the Hurricane fiasco are equally racist and all opposition to George Bush’s equally moronic policies was racist. It’s odd that one is only a racist and a homophobe if he is a straight white male, but anyone of any other race or gender is licensed to say things that include “Straight white males should be reduced to 10% of the population” and not only are they not labeled a sexist, heterophobe, or racist, they are applauded for it.

    This has been the situation in America for about 40 years and it needs to stop yesterday.Either something is wrong,or it’s not wrong.

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